Post by John Matthews on Mar 26, 2009 5:15:56 GMT -8
They have a strong and growing program in Northern California near where I raced as a kid. We should take some lessons from them on getting our organization up to speed. Here's a post from Paul Williamson that sums up a lot of what I've been saying about kart racing in general and points a direction for the future.
Thanks,
John
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Shannon Schmidt wrote:
If a rev limiter becomes standard on my F200, I will unbolt it and throw it in the Great Salt Lake and go back to Rotax. I signed on to F200 for a high performance class 4 cycle class. IMO 4 cycle racing will never attract any racer from the 2 cycle ranks if we stop offering something as fast and high performing as F200.
Shannon,
One thing you have to understand about Paul is his tongue is permanently implanted into his cheek. In fact, if you ever meet him in person you’d swear he has jaw-breakers stuck in both sides of his mouth. I can only assume it’s because his tongue has stretched out the inner linings of his cheeks. He is quickly becoming the resident NFRA “personality”.
Bringing over 2 stroke guys can be tough if shear speed is their determining factor. With the exception of the KTs, all of the other classes are quite a bit faster than F200s or WFs (TaGs, Shifters, HPVs etc.) We’ve had more success with other racing disciplines than we have 2 stroke karters. As sampling of our regular drivers would illustrate my point.
Driver Discipline
9 KT100
10 no racing experience
11 125 shifter/motorcycles
19 motorcycles
28 motorcycles
42 dirt ovals (4 stroke)
87 autocross
90 KT100
99 SCCA then Kt100s
My point is, in our area at least, the 2 strokers seem to sort of look down on 4 stokes and consider them to be slow and loud. They make take a 4 stroke for a test drive but 95% of the time they will give you a nice polite “that was, ah, fun” reply when you ask how they liked it. If they are running anything other than a KT it just isn’t as fast as what they are accustomed to running. In the case of the NFRA, however, speed isn’t the sole determining factor of the fun quotient. I’ll explain what I mean when I get to john’s question a little later.
One opportunity to “turn” these guys is if they are tired of banging around with kids who think karts are their ticket to a NASCAR or F1 ride. After replacing who knows how many broken parts because of these incidents on the track they look over at our group and see a bunch of mature (my wife may read this so I can’t necessarily claim to be “mature” lol) guys who race each other with respect. We start looking pretty good to them at that point. I’m not saying you can’t get some of these guys to come over, it’s just tougher than one would think.
John Matthews wrote:
Now Brad, do you have any tips for getting our program going here in Arizona?
Thanks,
John,
I think the NFRA has been able to achieve the success it has due to 5 reasons mainly.
1) Website. We created one very early on (before our karts were even put together) so the 4 cycle community in Norcal would have a central source of 4 cycle racing information. The site at that time had all the usual information like mission, forum, schedule, points, etc . etc. Over time we’ve enhanced it with photo galleries, race videos, chassis setup tips etc.
2) While our original site had a forum, it was crudpy Yahoo board that was kind of a pain in the azz. Earlier this month we setup a new forum on proboards (still free like Yahoo, but with some really nice features) and it’s really taken off with something close to 250 posts in less than a month. It seems like the more people are talking the more they are interested and the more they are interested the more they talk. The forum is a great place to not only BS, and get tech help but also the way we keep up with each other on when we are doing test sessions at the track etc. It’s always more fun to be at the track with your buddies and we use the forum as a clearinghouse for NFRA activities.
3) Early on Todd maintained a “demo kart” so we could provide test drives for potential 4 cycle racers. As I mentioned above, the demo kart met with very limited success with the 2 stroke guys. But, for someone thinking about getting into karting (especially if they were already predisposed to 4 cycles as most of us were) it was a great tool to pique their interest. After rolling back into the pits most of the time the test drivers would have a big old smile on their face and say something like, “yeah, I want to do this!”
4) The racing philosophy of the NFRA. This is a little hard for me to explain but let me try. When we started the NFRA in ’05 there were only 3 drivers. Steve was a former shifter driver who had never really raced. Me, a newbie KT driver who had only raced maybe twice. Billy Bowerman had raced a lot in the 90s but gave it up after a very bad wreck. When Todd brought him back he was racing his modified stock car at Roseville Speedway. Billy is a HECK of a kart driver and is VERY fast. By watching Billy we realized it isn’t just about being fast. It’s about respecting your competitors. It’s about making the pass because you have set him up properly and can do so cleanly without making contact. If you have to make contact to get around someone that makes you a lesser driver and you don’t deserve the position to begin with.
Now, those three points above might seem obvious to most, but I didn’t necessarily see a lot of that when I was racing in KTs. So basically in our first year we adopted Billy’s philosophy as the NFRA’s. Luckily, as new guys came in, most of them had the same philosophy. Those that didn’t, and caused “incidents” were made aware that their behavior wasn’t consistent with the way the NFRA rolls. One of the things we are doing this year (as we have more new guys coming in) is having a NFRA drivers meeting in addition to the normal pre-race drivers meeting just to make sure everyone is on the same page.
5) One of the really cool things about our group is it’s cohesion. Of course cohesion isn’t something you just do or have, it just sort of happens. While you may have TaGs, shifters, HPVs scattered all over the pitts you will ALWAYS find the NFRA pitted together. Why? Well, first off we are all really good friends at this point and enjoy hanging out. Second, we keep an eye on each other and if someone is having a problem it isn’t unusual have 4 or 5 sets of hands working on someone’s kart to get them out for the next heat or main. Third, when a new guy comes in we make sure he has a pit next to the rest of us they don’t fall through the cracks. Everyone is a part of the group and everyone is important to the group. Now, that doesn’t mean some serious smack talk doesn’t go down! It certainly does. Nor does it mean that the occasional practical joke doesn’t get played. I remember last year SOMEONE attached training wheels to the rear bumper of my kart just before we were to roll up to the starting grid. If we were scattered all over the pitts it would be much more difficult to do what I describe above.
Wow, so much for the quick reply. Sorry for rambling on. Signing off now.
_________________
Brad Wunder
President, NFRA
www.norcal4cycle.com
Thanks,
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shannon Schmidt wrote:
If a rev limiter becomes standard on my F200, I will unbolt it and throw it in the Great Salt Lake and go back to Rotax. I signed on to F200 for a high performance class 4 cycle class. IMO 4 cycle racing will never attract any racer from the 2 cycle ranks if we stop offering something as fast and high performing as F200.
Shannon,
One thing you have to understand about Paul is his tongue is permanently implanted into his cheek. In fact, if you ever meet him in person you’d swear he has jaw-breakers stuck in both sides of his mouth. I can only assume it’s because his tongue has stretched out the inner linings of his cheeks. He is quickly becoming the resident NFRA “personality”.
Bringing over 2 stroke guys can be tough if shear speed is their determining factor. With the exception of the KTs, all of the other classes are quite a bit faster than F200s or WFs (TaGs, Shifters, HPVs etc.) We’ve had more success with other racing disciplines than we have 2 stroke karters. As sampling of our regular drivers would illustrate my point.
Driver Discipline
9 KT100
10 no racing experience
11 125 shifter/motorcycles
19 motorcycles
28 motorcycles
42 dirt ovals (4 stroke)
87 autocross
90 KT100
99 SCCA then Kt100s
My point is, in our area at least, the 2 strokers seem to sort of look down on 4 stokes and consider them to be slow and loud. They make take a 4 stroke for a test drive but 95% of the time they will give you a nice polite “that was, ah, fun” reply when you ask how they liked it. If they are running anything other than a KT it just isn’t as fast as what they are accustomed to running. In the case of the NFRA, however, speed isn’t the sole determining factor of the fun quotient. I’ll explain what I mean when I get to john’s question a little later.
One opportunity to “turn” these guys is if they are tired of banging around with kids who think karts are their ticket to a NASCAR or F1 ride. After replacing who knows how many broken parts because of these incidents on the track they look over at our group and see a bunch of mature (my wife may read this so I can’t necessarily claim to be “mature” lol) guys who race each other with respect. We start looking pretty good to them at that point. I’m not saying you can’t get some of these guys to come over, it’s just tougher than one would think.
John Matthews wrote:
Now Brad, do you have any tips for getting our program going here in Arizona?
Thanks,
John,
I think the NFRA has been able to achieve the success it has due to 5 reasons mainly.
1) Website. We created one very early on (before our karts were even put together) so the 4 cycle community in Norcal would have a central source of 4 cycle racing information. The site at that time had all the usual information like mission, forum, schedule, points, etc . etc. Over time we’ve enhanced it with photo galleries, race videos, chassis setup tips etc.
2) While our original site had a forum, it was crudpy Yahoo board that was kind of a pain in the azz. Earlier this month we setup a new forum on proboards (still free like Yahoo, but with some really nice features) and it’s really taken off with something close to 250 posts in less than a month. It seems like the more people are talking the more they are interested and the more they are interested the more they talk. The forum is a great place to not only BS, and get tech help but also the way we keep up with each other on when we are doing test sessions at the track etc. It’s always more fun to be at the track with your buddies and we use the forum as a clearinghouse for NFRA activities.
3) Early on Todd maintained a “demo kart” so we could provide test drives for potential 4 cycle racers. As I mentioned above, the demo kart met with very limited success with the 2 stroke guys. But, for someone thinking about getting into karting (especially if they were already predisposed to 4 cycles as most of us were) it was a great tool to pique their interest. After rolling back into the pits most of the time the test drivers would have a big old smile on their face and say something like, “yeah, I want to do this!”
4) The racing philosophy of the NFRA. This is a little hard for me to explain but let me try. When we started the NFRA in ’05 there were only 3 drivers. Steve was a former shifter driver who had never really raced. Me, a newbie KT driver who had only raced maybe twice. Billy Bowerman had raced a lot in the 90s but gave it up after a very bad wreck. When Todd brought him back he was racing his modified stock car at Roseville Speedway. Billy is a HECK of a kart driver and is VERY fast. By watching Billy we realized it isn’t just about being fast. It’s about respecting your competitors. It’s about making the pass because you have set him up properly and can do so cleanly without making contact. If you have to make contact to get around someone that makes you a lesser driver and you don’t deserve the position to begin with.
Now, those three points above might seem obvious to most, but I didn’t necessarily see a lot of that when I was racing in KTs. So basically in our first year we adopted Billy’s philosophy as the NFRA’s. Luckily, as new guys came in, most of them had the same philosophy. Those that didn’t, and caused “incidents” were made aware that their behavior wasn’t consistent with the way the NFRA rolls. One of the things we are doing this year (as we have more new guys coming in) is having a NFRA drivers meeting in addition to the normal pre-race drivers meeting just to make sure everyone is on the same page.
5) One of the really cool things about our group is it’s cohesion. Of course cohesion isn’t something you just do or have, it just sort of happens. While you may have TaGs, shifters, HPVs scattered all over the pitts you will ALWAYS find the NFRA pitted together. Why? Well, first off we are all really good friends at this point and enjoy hanging out. Second, we keep an eye on each other and if someone is having a problem it isn’t unusual have 4 or 5 sets of hands working on someone’s kart to get them out for the next heat or main. Third, when a new guy comes in we make sure he has a pit next to the rest of us they don’t fall through the cracks. Everyone is a part of the group and everyone is important to the group. Now, that doesn’t mean some serious smack talk doesn’t go down! It certainly does. Nor does it mean that the occasional practical joke doesn’t get played. I remember last year SOMEONE attached training wheels to the rear bumper of my kart just before we were to roll up to the starting grid. If we were scattered all over the pitts it would be much more difficult to do what I describe above.
Wow, so much for the quick reply. Sorry for rambling on. Signing off now.
_________________
Brad Wunder
President, NFRA
www.norcal4cycle.com
